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Author Topic: Fish Rubbing on bottom?  (Read 12394 times)
tirwin88
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Fish Rubbing on bottom?
« on: June 02, 2010, 09:47:25 PM »

Hi everyone!  I am new to the forum but have been a pond owner for over 10 years now.  I am experiencing some issues this year with my pond.  After taking my water in to have it tested due to not being able to see the bottom, I was told my nitrozene levels were high.  Mainly due to all the dead algae laying on the bottom of my pond.   They recommended I do a complete water change and shop vac out the pond.  I did this on Sunday.   I added pond salt and Microlift as told by my local pond expert.  The pond is crystal clear now and so far no sign of changing over.

After sitting outside tonight and feeding my fish, I noticed several of them lunging quickly to the bottom and rubbing up against a piece of the wrinkled liner.  They keep doing this.   I am thinking some kind of parasite?  Is there an easy way to tell what it could be?  What do I need to do and how soon does it need to be done?  Products needed and if so what kind?  Please Help!  I had a complete fish kill several years ago with no known reason and I am terrified this could happen again!
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Bexo
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Re: Fish Rubbing on bottom?
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2010, 10:06:08 PM »

you said you took your water to be tested, so you must not have means to test yourself? At least tell us this. What size is your pond? what kind of fish do you have? how many? how big? Can you take pics of your fish and post them here? KK could maybe see any signs of disease or parasites possibly from pics. welcome to the forum btw. Also where are you located? thanks, these things will help some.
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tirwin88
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Re: Fish Rubbing on bottom?
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2010, 10:08:02 PM »

-How long has the pond been in operation? Over 10 years but just did a complete water change.
-Water readings:  Not sure will take it again tomorrow to have it tested.
--Ammonia:
--Nitrite:
--Nitrate:
--pH:
--KH (=Alkalinity):
--GH:
--02:
--Salt:
-What is your current water temperature:
-Is your pond lined, concrete, or other (please describe) and does it have a rock bottom?:Lined with no rock on bottom
-What kind of filtration do you have: BioFilter and a second pump with a prefilter
-What is your routine pond maintenance: Adding MicroLift weekly
-What is your water source (tap or well):Tap
-What kind of water conditioner/dechlor do you use (brand):
-What, how much and how often do you feed your fish? once a day
-What is the size of your pond? (gallons or LxWxD): 1000 Gallons
-What are your pond inhabitants; How many fish total, type and approximate size: (1) large 14 inch koi, (1) 10 inch catfish, (3) 5 inch koi, (4) 4 inch goldfish
-Have you added new fish or plants to the pond recently? 3 Koi were added 3 weeks ago along with floating plants.   Also I briefly added 3 tadpoles but quickly removed them after my catfish began attacking them
A: What type and when?
B: Were they quarantined:No
-Have you used any medications recently and if so what? None
-Describe in detail what problems you are seeing with your ailing fish:  Rubbing against the bottom of the pond and during the day they seem to lay against the one side.  I thought at first they may have been laying eggs.

If you can provide a picture to go along with the above information, that would help tremendously as well.

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Bexo
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Re: Fish Rubbing on bottom?
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2010, 10:10:19 PM »

ok, I see you did your homework while I was responding lol.
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tirwin88
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Re: Fish Rubbing on bottom?
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2010, 10:24:54 PM »

Here are the best pics I could get.  Also I normally just take my water down the street to be tested as the pond place is only a short walk from my house.



* 1.jpg (64.53 KB, 587x441 - viewed 160 times.)

* 2.jpg (20.18 KB, 294x220 - viewed 122 times.)

* 3.jpg (32.31 KB, 470x352 - viewed 124 times.)
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tirwin88
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Re: Fish Rubbing on bottom?
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2010, 10:25:29 PM »

And 2 more!  Smiley


* 4.jpg (22.63 KB, 326x245 - viewed 117 times.)

* 5.jpg (30.27 KB, 326x245 - viewed 119 times.)
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tirwin88
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Re: Fish Rubbing on bottom?
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2010, 10:27:12 PM »

Ok sorry I am terrible at this!  I live in Southern NJ.   I am really concerned at how these guys are acting.   Any idea?  Please tell me I wont lose them overnight as my pond supplier is closed!
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koi keeper
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Re: Fish Rubbing on bottom?
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2010, 10:53:34 PM »

first off you need a test kit for ph,KH,GH,nitrites ammonia and nitrates, their not that expensive and very simple to use.I like the drop test kits made by API but their are others that will work. I also like the jungle labs pond test strips you can check everything but ammonia at once by simply dipping the strip in the water, If I see anything abnormal I double check it with my drop test kits and the results are usually really close to the same. I hope you understand how important testing your water parameters is, take a look at the bottom of my post.

Now I'll try to help you with your fish, what your fish are doing is called flashing something is irritating them and there trying to remove it by rubbing/flashing on the bottom of the pond. The first thing to check when you notice flashing is your water parameters, ammonia a low ph or nitrites could be causing it If that checks out ok then the next suspect is parasites and 90% of the time It's usually flukes or Ich? Flukes aren't visible to the naked eye but Ich can be seen It looks like tiny salt and pepper spots they usually start on the fins especially the tail fin and spread to the entire body. A fluke or Ich infestation can kill your fish and needs to be treated promptly. Your not giving me much to go on but I feel certain that one of the above is causing the problem. If you can post a pic that would help a lot, along with test results of your water parameters then we'll go from there. I wouldn't waste any time you need to post test results and post a pic if you can immediately!!
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tirwin88
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Re: Fish Rubbing on bottom?
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2010, 11:04:01 PM »

Not sure if we crossed in our posts?  I posted some pics of 2 of the fish.  Not sure if you can see anything?   I will run down to the pond store tomorrow and have them test the water.  I will also be SURE to pick up a test kit for myself.  I just always ran it down to them whenever I saw a change of any kind....I now know the importance after reading some posts on here of having a kit of my own.   Unfortunately I have no way of getting the tests tonight.
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koi keeper
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Re: Fish Rubbing on bottom?
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2010, 11:21:20 PM »

Yeah you posted the pics while I was typing,  I can't see anything that's obvious in the pics, If you have some baking soda I would add 4 table spoons just in case you have a low ph. I can't really say what the problem is for sure without water test results but a ph crash will kill your fish faster than parasites will. I strongly suspect flukes but neither flukes or Ich will kill your fish tonight but a ph crash can for sure..
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tirwin88
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Re: Fish Rubbing on bottom?
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2010, 11:41:27 PM »

Thanks so much!  I thankfully found an opened box of baking soda in my cabinet!  Being opened will not cause it to lose its effect will it?  Expiration on it is until 2012.  I added just now but if you believe because it is open it will not be as effective I will head out to purchase another box asap.

As soon as I get the kids off to school tomorrow and logged into work I will head down to the pond shop to pick up a test kit for sure! 
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koi keeper
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Re: Fish Rubbing on bottom?
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2010, 10:01:31 AM »

The open baking soda is fine, post those test results as soon as you can.
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Tana
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Re: Fish Rubbing on bottom?
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2010, 10:07:44 AM »

Beautiful coloring on your fish!  kk will help you heal them.   Grin
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tirwin88
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Re: Fish Rubbing on bottom?
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2010, 01:30:21 PM »

I took a sample of water down to be tested and I also purchased a test kit to use from now on.

The PH was high....
Salt was good
Ammonia and Nitrate were only slightly elevated?  Not sure how as the bottom of my pond is clear?

The pond expert told me to do a 1/3 water change and add salt and some pond stress.   They told me to let it run a bit and then test the waters again.  She told me to bring water samples back in for the salt and they would like the salt to be elevated a bit to try to kick any parasite that could be there?
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Re: Fish Rubbing on bottom?
« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2010, 02:11:46 PM »

tirwin, the higher the pH and temp, the more toxic the ammonia becomes, even slightly elevated is too much.  Did you mean you have nitrAtes or nitrItes that are high?  Elevated nitrites, not good.   I think the water change will definitely help, along with salt, but measure, don't just guess at the salt.  You can have totally clear water and also have raging ammonia - I know this from dumb experience.
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